Thermal Products, Inc. Hydronic Heating and Solar Thermal Wholesaler

New delivery schedule at Thermal Products

August 1st, 2011

830 N. 127th Street. Suite B Seattle, WA 98133    P:  (206) 363-4328             F: (206) 363-4324

Good Day Valued Customers,

Thank you for your business and support this year and all the years preceding it! We are proud to be one of your wholesalers and hope to be able to better serve you moving forward in 2011 and beyond.  2011 has seen some changes at Thermal Products Inc. that you should be aware of.

This spring we added John Ginda to our staff. John was formerly the operations manager of Carbon Smart LLC. He has worked with solar thermal systems in general and Apricus solar systems in particular. John is working for us to provide solar system design, training, troubleshooting and onsite commissioning. If you have need of any these and other related services, please let us know and we’d be happy to help if we can.

Another change we are planning to implement this month is a delivery schedule of Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays only. This will allow us to be more productive on delivery/will call days and better coordinate and allocate our resources.  We will be utilizing this schedule until the end of the year and if successful, into 2012.

We hope that you are doing well and look forward to working with you in the future. Please let us know if there is anything else we can do to be of service and if within our power, it shall be so!

The Thermal Products Team,

Jay, Ryan & John

Email to: sales@thermalproductsinc.com

Common Mistakes on Larger Solar Thermal Installations

May 17th, 2011

Commercial sized solar thermal installations can seem rare at times in our area.  However, when they do occur contractors, wholesalers and yes even engineers accustomed to residential installations can run into serious  but common stumbling blocks late in the game which can result in costly change orders and delays. Here are two that have come up on my recent consultation ventures.

Inadequate Pumping Power: 

With multiple banks of collectors, reverse return piping on the roof, and manifolded storage tanks piping distance can quickly add up. Two banks of five collectors can result in between 140 to 310 feet of copper and solar manifolds before you even get down through the roof! At a minimum flow rate of 7.5 GPM with a 50% glycol mixture frictional resistance could well exceed 25-35 head/ft by the time we factor in piping to the mechanical room and solar tank coils. Cold morning startups will certainly provide a workout for even adequately sized pumps.

A lot of us may flip through a manufacturer’s catalog and find a commercial pump station with a pump capable of 10 GPM or 30ft of head. In a rush we could look at this and estimate that this will get the job done, before we actually plan the piping runs and quickly forget about it until it’s piped in the system. “Hey it can move 8.5 GPM and the collectors are only 16 feet above the pump it could work right?” Not really.  If we take the time to actually calculate head loss and look at the pump curve these “commercial” pump stations might be able to do 4-6GPM once the system has warmed up on a system similar to the one described above, early morning startups aside.

Let’s just get this fact out there, most pre-engineered and factory assembled “commercial“ pump stations are more accurately described as heavy duty residential pump stations. If we are designing a system that has more than 5 collectors we have to assume that all the mechanicals will be site assembled from hand-picked equipment that we size ourselves, pumps, air scrubbers, isolation valves, temp gauges and more, some of which will not be regularly stocked items resulting in costly delays and pricey shipping bills.

Bottom line, know how to calculate pressure drop and read a pump curve, its basic knowledge and readily available online. Guesswork just doesn’t cut it.

Here is another issue that can catch anybody off guard.

Mismatched Controls:

I think a lot of us have wised up over the past few years to the fact that we need a control with the correct number of relays and triacs to control all of our systems functions, pumping speed, diverting etc. Heck, we don’t even stock controls that don’t have variable speed at here at T.P.! They are a thing of the past if you ask me. Yes, we all have learned to at least check that relays equal number of motors we are powering, but are the relays rated to do the job?

Well, for commercial systems probably not. Our go to control, the iSolar Plus, can do most every function we want for a residential or commercial solar system save a few specialized functions that the new BX control will handle. But if we look at the specs the iSolar Plus has 1 amp relays, which are fine for our standard small circulators that run between 60-90 watts. Did you know the “commercial” pumps draw 170 watts on high speed? Not a good combo for an iSolar Plus with a 1 amp relay and a 120V wall socket (as an update we have checked on this issue and come up with some reassuring answers, but this is still a good lesson for any professional).

This is another case where our familiarity with residential systems lulls us to sleep. Any one of us could easily fall into the trap where we smartly remember that we need a diverter valve in the system and say “hey we need an iSolar Plus on arrangement blah, blah, blah, to handle that if we want heat dumping as well! Good catch me.” (Pat self on back).  We order the bigger pump station made by the same manufacturer we always use and assume they will work together and no one is the wiser until you try to commission the system and it doesn’t work the way we thought it would. This means change order time and hopefully the customer isn’t around to watch us scratch our heads while we look like amateurs trying to figure out the issue.

The moral of this post is to read product literature, check your pump curve and work with people who you trust to know what they are talking about. Here at Thermal Products we’re not always perfect but we focus on the details and work to help you through the design process on every system so you can avoid costly and silly mistakes like these.

Remember 1 quality installation serves your business better than 10 mediocre ones! Help give solar thermal a good name.

John Ginda

Outside Sales/Solar Training/Consulting

Thermal Products Inc.

Apricus Announces New Buy American Approved Evacuated Tube Collector

May 17th, 2011

Apricus Inc. has announced the June launch of their newest commercial collector the AP-30C, which fully meets and exceeds the ARRA requirements on public stimulus projects. The collector has two new features not found on standard AP-30 collectors which are a stainless steel manifold casing and 4 heavy duty mounting points, in place of the standard 6,  for faster installation.

Give us a call for pricing information in a few days and look for updated specs in the products section of the website soon.

Caleffi Spring Promotion

May 2nd, 2011

Caleffi_Free_Gas_Promo

Help your fleet drive for free when you buy qualifying materials from Caleffi. With so many boiler trim items to choose from you’ll find it an easy sell to get paid to drive! Contact us and let us know you’re interested and we’ll sign you up and keep track for you. Also, click the link above to read all necessary requirements.

PolyPropylene Venting at Thermal Products

August 23rd, 2010

We are proud to announce that Innoflue from Centrotherm is at Thermal Products! Check out the Catalog and get familiar with the future of Venting. Check it out here or click on the picture below to be routed to the website!

Also, please be sure to let us know if you have any particular piece of venting that you can’t live without and we’ll look into bringing it in for you!

Shoreline Solar Festival a Success

July 20th, 2010

I thought that I would share a few pics from the 2010 Shoreline Solar Festival. There seemed to be lots of public support for the renewable energy sector as well interest in learning more about what can be done to lessen ones energy bills and environmental impact (unless the goal is to make a large POSITIVE environmental impact!).

All that being said, while it was fun to see the interest and exciting to realize that there are more and more venues out there to push solar andother renewables as mainstream energy sources…Solar Thermal is still a less attractive option for a lot of people! It’s hard for me to see why, when it can pay back in less time than the photovoltaic solar systems without a lot of the incentive programs that are needed to make that latter technology remotely viable.

The other thing that puzzles me about the whole deal is that solar electric (pv) is great for other parts of the country where high energy costs can be seen driving the market. Here in the NW, howeveA & R Solarr, we pay such low rates / kW (approx. 8 cents, I believe?) that after paying for your system that produces, let’s say 3 kW, and imagining that you get 10 hours of light with the collector receiving full light for the whole day….(computing now)…. outside of government incentives, you just saved $2.40!!!

Lastly, you’re buying a pv collector (if it’s a great collector)  with efficiency ratings of 15-20%. That means that 15-20% of the total solar energy that is collected is converted into usable, grid-stable AC current (due in large part by the inverter). Compare this with the 80% efficiency rating of a solar thermal (solar hot water) collector and it seems rather silly to get so excited over running (more like crawling) your meter backwards.

Though I am OBVIOUSLY biased, it is still a welcome site to see that Solar and other renewable energies are making headway in the marketplace. Hopefully, with time and education, solar hot water will get the kudos it deserves and will finally step out of the shadows and into the light!

Take Care,

Ryan Burgett

Not illegal…but a terrible idea

July 1st, 2010

I got a call from a contractor asking about proper practices and regulations regarding the use of Pex or Pex-al-Pex in a Solar Thermal System and figured this would be as good a time as any to weigh in on this controversial topic.

DON’T DO IT

Pex pipe or other flexible piping is not rated for the types of temperatures or pressures that you can see in a solar thermal loop. You’re looking at typical maximum temperature and pressure ratings on the Pex tubing of 200 °F and 200 psi respectively and the latter (pressure rating) has a negative correlation to the temperature so it’s not REALLY 200 psi at those higher temps. All that being said, I have had a VERY difficult time finding information on and off the web that says in clear, plain english (or even unintelligible garbled english) that

Pex pipe should not be used for Solar Thermal applications because of the inherent temperature and pressure limitations of the material. Even in the Uniform Solar Energy Code for 2009 it doesn’t mention much useful info on this topic. On top of that, the SRCC had a committee vote and decided to ALLOW Pex and Pex-al-Pex in drainback, open loop (atmospheric pressure) systems as long as it meets certain requirements.

Read the Letter and see for yourself!

So until the regulatory bodies wise up and start working towards properly protecting the consumer, it’s up to us! Understand the limitations of Pex and the liability of the entire system to both you as the installer, and the consumer. Lastly, a system done right, always costs less in the long run than a system done cheap.

P.S.~ If ANYONE can send me a link to an official document of ANY kind calling out Pex as not suitable for Solar Hot Water, I would be very appreciative.

~Ryan Burgett

Thermal Products Head of Technology

We’re going live in 1,2,3

June 11th, 2010

Hooray for our new website!

© 2010 Thermal Products, Inc.